Re: Detector/EW changes

Here is what I want to know, can we get some posted "theoretical percentages" for what you wish to achieve with balancing ECCM versus ECM and at different extension levels.

For example A player with 1 ECM in his head slot has 75% chance of being ecmed by a vagabond with L10 Jamming and complex jamming electronics.

Player B with 1 ECM in his he'd slot has a 30% chance of bring ecmed by a vagabond with L5 Jamming and complex jamming electronics.

Player c with 2 ECMs in his head slot has a 30% chance of being ecmed by a vagabond with L10 Jamming and complex jamming electronics.

Player D with 2 ECM in his head slot kills the vagabond before player D is ECMed. 

Similar but with different variations cameleon and vagabond different extension levels plus add one tuner.  Things like that.

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Re: Detector/EW changes

Ville wrote:

Here is what I want to know, can we get some posted "theoretical percentages" for what you wish to achieve with balancing ECCM versus ECM and at different extension levels.

For example A player with 1 ECM in his head slot has 75% chance of being ecmed by a vagabond with L10 Jamming and complex jamming electronics.

Player B with 1 ECM in his he'd slot has a 30% chance of bring ecmed by a vagabond with L5 Jamming and complex jamming electronics.

Player c with 2 ECMs in his head slot has a 30% chance of being ecmed by a vagabond with L10 Jamming and complex jamming electronics.

Player D with 2 ECM in his head slot kills the vagabond before player D is ECMed. 

Similar but with different variations cameleon and vagabond different extension levels plus add one tuner.  Things like that.


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Re: Detector/EW changes

Yes need proper Balancing not bad implementation. Use testserver!

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29 (edited by Burial 2014-05-28 22:24:41)

Re: Detector/EW changes

1. I think the tuner change is good, however, I would also just flat out make ECCM stronger instead of adding another extension(or meet at middle groud of buffing ECCM and extension giving 1%)

2. EW Nexus. It's nuts it gives 29% range increase when all other Nexuses give ~15%.

3. Detectors and Speed Nexus SHOULD NOT fit on Castel MK2. 130kmph detection bot is way too overpowerd.

Re: Detector/EW changes

Fast detectors pay the price for their speed by having 500hp. I have piloted one for a very long time, and I lose them all the time.

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31 (edited by Syndic 2014-05-28 22:14:23)

Re: Detector/EW changes

Also,

If you're changing EW/Detection with this magnitude, you should definitely be refunding everyone's EP for every EW/Detection/Masking/Spec Ops robot control extension, since in some cases 3-4 year accounts are invalidated by these potential changes.

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32 (edited by Burial 2014-05-28 22:17:50)

Re: Detector/EW changes

Syndic wrote:

Fast detectors pay the price for their speed by having 500hp. I have piloted one for a very long time, and I lose them all the time.

Is there a lot of difference if it has 500 or 5000 armor if it goes 130kmph? Islands are small. Masked max speed Cameleon MK2 closes in on that Castel only ~1.66 m/s.

Re: Detector/EW changes

Sigh.

Demob, Velocity
Frame

GG Tell me how fast that Cam mk2 closes now.

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Re: Detector/EW changes

Not fast enough.

Re: Detector/EW changes

Burial wrote:

Not fast enough.

15kph isnt enough to catch up? There is no pleasing you people!

Re: Detector/EW changes

Why are none of these "uncatchable" detectors running around my island 24/7 then? smile

Masked velocity cameleon mk2 can't demob something. I bet it probably has a shield too. And a T2P injector just in case. lol

If you didn't exist someone would have to invent you for the sake of good comedy. lol

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Re: Detector/EW changes

Syndic wrote:

Why are none of these "uncatchable" detectors running around my island 24/7 then? smile

Masked velocity cameleon mk2 can't demob something. I bet it probably has a shield too. And a T2P injector just in case. lol

If you didn't exist someone would have to invent you for the sake of good comedy. lol


Dont forget the Active hacking module in case you accidentally run across a sap while chasing that detector!

38 (edited by Rex Amelius 2014-05-28 23:56:15)

Re: Detector/EW changes

Burial wrote:

3. Detectors and Speed Nexus SHOULD NOT fit on Castel MK2. 130kmph detection bot is way too overpowerd.

One of the very big issues I have with discussing Problems of any sort on the Forums is that too many inter-related issues become entwined. Are we talking about Detection Mechanics, Fitting Requirements, Speed Mechanics, NEXUS effects, or what?

Even if its agreed that 130kph detection bot is OP, Devs, you need to separate the issues. Is that a Detection Mechanic problem? Keep the discussion focused.

Additionally, Max-EP-Theorycraft-Extreme-Fit examples are very often the Exception, NOT the Norm. Yet advocates of one 'side' or another tend to use extreme examples as the rationale for making broad changes. Changes then result in all kinds of unintended consequences.

Dev Alf, again I beg you (and Zoom) to break the Detection/Masking and ECM/ECCM issues apart into a separate Discussion Threads

Sparking to other games

Re: Detector/EW changes

Detection change allows a masked Cam to avoid detector.

+1

Without the hard numbers should change a -40 m window of visibility detector sees cam, to about a +150 m cam sees detector buffer. Cam doesn't have to outrun when he can hide.

I'll figure it out when I get home or someone else can.

40 (edited by Cassius 2014-05-28 23:53:18)

Re: Detector/EW changes

Stupid iPhone.

Re: Detector/EW changes

it will be great until we overbreak it and people cry and they change it again

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Re: Detector/EW changes

Rage Blackout wrote:

it will be great until we USE it and people cry and they change it again


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43 (edited by Kaldenines 2014-05-29 01:34:28)

Re: Detector/EW changes

+1 for separate threads

Detection
Sounds like an interesting change, Not sure if the masking penalty is large enough but small steps is always good.

As for extreme cases, with the detector, people have made alt accounts with the singular purpose of having maxed out detectors.  These detectors are then used to direct whole gangs so in this case, the extreme is the norm.

Ewar
+1 for no new extensions that give a bonus regardless of what you fit, it's not wow, we don't want to keep raising the level cap. Imho it's better to let players diversify and specialize instead of just becoming generically better.

Can't really tell how ewar will work from just reading that there will be a 2% extension, please give us at least a couple of weeks to try it out on the test server first. Like Ville said, what is the end goal here in terms of how effective you think it should?

Also, I am glad you guys are looking at it but I think the main problem with ewar is the way it works rather than with the exact values used. It seems to me that just tuning ewar strength is a choice between two situations:

1) ewar is so nerfed that people switch to energy warfare instead

2) ewar dominates the gun fight so that shooting becomes an afterthought once one side has managed to lock the other side down.

Usually one side will have a numbers advantage, this is normal for open world pvp.  Imo the goal with ewar should be to help people even the odds rather than create helpless targets (and yes I have been on both sides of this).

One idea is to turn ecm into a debuff (like the suppressor) that has some chance of breaking lock every second.  This debuff could be limited to one per target.
I would love to see jamming affect an area around a targeted bot or tile.  This would make it much more tactical (with appropriate balancing ofc).

+1
-Confucius

Re: Detector/EW changes

Like all the changes for the most part to be honest. The detection numbers may be a bit off still but I like the direction.

Some boost to ECCM is nice also via the new extension. You could still even have a passive and an active eccm extension. One boosts the sensor strength of the bot, and one could increase the effectiveness of ECCM mods if equipped? Just spitballing here.

And lastly, Welcome back ALF! Good to see not only old vets are coming back, but old Dev's as well! Looking forward to learning to hate your "balancing". smile

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Re: Detector/EW changes

a wise man once said that the game is balanced on a razors edge and touching one little thing could implode it all

that thing is ewar

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Re: Detector/EW changes

I dont see this going places......

I wouldn't introduce a new nav skill, unless you can actually fix ECM.  You can start by making it impossible or really hard to reach 100% However with your system this would be basically Impossible as well.

For the players who have EP banked it doesn't matter, for the new guys it will, would rather not screw them over....

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47 (edited by Balfizar 2014-05-29 01:44:25)

Re: Detector/EW changes

Ok so u want to debuff detectors and in doing so will buff maskers......I remember back in the day when assaults had umm 200 masking was it?

This change was reverted in a week lol and now your basically going to reimplement it but instead of buffing one bot all bots with a masker fitted will be buffed?

How about we step back a bit. How about instead on focusing on single mod buffing/nerfing how about we take a look at the bots in general. Give your bot bonuses another once over.
Let's start separating them with specific bonuses to the jobs you wish them to perform. For the most part most of the bots bonuses are fairly general and the same.
Maybe bring in the detector nerfing though introduce a new light bot with detection bonus so not every bot can be epic eyes and masked assaults as counters these epic eyes. Just a suggestion but in my opinion you guys are thinking too small and for once think outside the box.

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Re: Detector/EW changes

ECCM extension is NOTHING like the old navigation extension. For a new player starting out, eccm extension is just one of many you will try to get to 5 to be proficient. I can list at least a dozen extensions that are must haves for new players before getting to the eccm extension.It would be pretty far down the list for me when I was just starting out.

And technically the "New guys" will be no worse off than they are now. It just allows them the ability to be slightly less susceptible to ewar down the road.

If we are talking a 10% boost to sensor strength, that is like an 8 or 10 point increase in sensor strength when maxed out. An Eccm mod ads 65 to sensor strength. So this extension is a very slight buff to sensor strength in reality. If it stacks with eccm modules it becomes a little better, but if someone is rolling with 2 eccm mods then who cares if they get a little extra buff. They are gimped out anyway for the most part like that.

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Re: Detector/EW changes

If you wish to give us a skill that boosts sensor strength to each bot, instead, just reduce ECM strength by 10% across the board.

Does the same thing.

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Re: Detector/EW changes

Or increase ECCM strength by 15% and see where that goes.

The Gifter
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