1 (edited by Stranger Danger 2014-05-26 07:32:44)

Topic: "Seige Stones"

What do people think of perhaps changing the instability function from its current incarnation of more or less ninjaing station scanning saps and dealing with mini-game style mechanics that tend to be boring as hell like specimen and standing there shooting an object?

Im not suggesting removing scanning and sap loot, I think that's a fun idea that leads to small scale fights.  Keep that.

Im talking about flipping stations.

My idea is jacked right from Darkfall where you buy an expensive siege stone, declare war, drop the siege stone within radius of the holding (station) and in X amount of hours the siege stone goes live, then shortly after the holding goes vulnerable.

This leads to large fights that everyone in game knows about, leading to fun/interesting fights...which is what this game lacks now and has in the past...big fights where anything can happen.

Im not suggesting an EVE style war dec where pve players can be griefed...but a public notification that corp X will attempt to take Corp Y's station within the next two days or so.

Siege stone of the attackers must be defended until the station goes live.  Then perhaps a destruction sap will go live and once its destroyed the station changes hands.  Siege stone must be expensive, perhaps have it craftable?

This mechanics could also work for gamma with some tweaking.  This could render mega bases of death useless, and bases could be more about defending its players outside of war rather than being as close to impossible to take as the game will allow.  Again would need some tweaking to not totally render a base worthless to defend in siege.


Leave sap loot for the mini fights, we need a mechanic that will allow for larger fights, that make more sense than needing to be online ever 8-14hrs per station (yours and enemies) and doesn't cater to ninja sapping stations.  Would also encourage you to bring your sunday best when dropping a siege, which means heavy asset loss which makes the current infinite resource system more logical to how the game is played.

BTW I use to love in Darkfall when a noobie or small clan got seiged, the merc clans would come out the woodworks, non allies who hate the sieging clan would offer assistance, and it would turn into a crazy fight involving lots of parties.  Backstabbing and double agent clans would flip sides mid fight.  It was fantastic. You never knew what would happen, or if those who came to you aid were actually friendly (often they weren't but would rather see your enemy not win)

Current beta sieges involve ninjas, no shows, and maybe one decent fight with 8 or so hours heads up that it will occur.  This system would make the station flip a larger deal, give more heads up to involved parties, give time for some quality diplomacy to occur and be more of an event rather than "look what just happened"

Stranger Danger / Capital Punishment / Cyberdown
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Re: "Seige Stones"

Could work by merging Intrusion 1.0 and 2.0 into a modular system that allows corporations to sign up for an intrusion to fight for control of the outpost (100M sign-up cost), or simply go through the process of grinding SAPs down.

Best of both worlds and it offers options to people.

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Re: "Seige Stones"

-1

Re: "Seige Stones"

Syndic wrote:

Could work by merging Intrusion 1.0 and 2.0 into a modular system that allows corporations to sign up for an intrusion to fight for control of the outpost (100M sign-up cost), or simply go through the process of grinding SAPs down.

Best of both worlds and it offers options to people.

Yeah, I think it could really be used as a way to mitigate out of control gamma bases as well.

I just think back to how fun Darkfall was with sieges, even with a population that was incredibly tiny the siege system brought out everyone from the woodworks and made the game very entertaining.

Im thinking something along the line of a station hack module rather than a siege stone.  There is room for tactics in placing the siege module.  It would run for say 48 hrs before hacking was successful and the station went live.  The hack module would be vulnerable say 2hrs prior to the station getting hacked.  It would be public info.  The attackers would need to defend the hack module before granted the ability to attack the station and flip it.

If the hack module is destroyed by defenders they win.

This mechanic would also make having a station but not using it a disadvantage.  You would be able to camp the unused station and prevent haulers from filling the station up with bots and players heading there to place sparks.

A well used station would be very hard to take, since they would probably be able to undock bots over and over, leading to massive asset losses potentially...which is great for the economy and the infinite ore system.

I look right now at station taking, its boring, its too frequent the need to baby sit it, and its often flipped by tiny forces by people who wont make much use out of the station.

This mechanic would add a lot of depth to the game I think, and would encourage larger fights.  It would encourage diplomacy beyond alliances if for instance, a smaller corp wanted to have a station and use it, they would need to get on the politics phone and get assistance, even if it was for a price.

More active stations also means more afk miners to pop.

And thanks for being predictable burial.

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Re: "Seige Stones"

Im also trying to think of a way to make this work for gamma.

Stranger Danger / Capital Punishment / Cyberdown
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Re: "Seige Stones"

Burial wrote:

-1


-1

Re: "Seige Stones"

I dunno maybe people dislike big battles and enjoy ninja sapping more...seems to be the boring route.

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Re: "Seige Stones"

Instead make it a dread glider that anchors for 8 hours to 16 hours. The longer it anchors after 8 hours the more damage and aoe it can do. Would be an expensive bot and people would come from all over to try and destroy it. Definitely love the idea of being able to build temporary defenses to siege a base that gives a forward command area or a fall back point as time goes on.

Maybe a platform must be built before the glider can anchor and only to spots where these platforms are? The attaclers would then be limited to one spot or multiple (would require them to defend their siege engines more) areas to  where the defender cpuldnt stack defenses on that side before the siege glider is prepared.

Re: "Seige Stones"

Wasn't that you guys who asked for Intrusion 2.0?

+1 tho, Nintrusion is a mess.

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10 (edited by Rage Rex 2014-05-26 21:00:56)

Re: "Seige Stones"

Back when Intrusion 2.0 first came out I argued for long, ignored, time that the Passive Defense aspect of SAPs is broken. Current system permits Defense by Default and that is just too easy, and not conducive to promoting active presence on Beta.

Ignoring Lack of Incentives Issue to be on Beta as that is a different discussion...

For Defensive aspect of SAPs the Defenders should not only stop enemy from taking SAP, but should also have to do something, ANYTHING, to GAIN points to a terminal. So if a SAP is at 80 and no enemy bothers to come out to attack it AND defender does not bother to come out to defend it, it should STAY at 80. No one should gain. Perhaps with a necessity for defenders to undock and 'do something' enemies may be more inclined to visit knowing Defenders have to be active.

As for the 'do something' I would have to look at the dozens of suggestions posted when Intrusion 2.0 first came out. Even a nominal 'click, I'm here' is better than nothing. Though I'd rather see something more fun, like some type of PVE event (balanced with potential for live player event).

TLDR: Intrusion System needs another overhaul.

Re: "Seige Stones"

Old system where you could "siege" every station then pick one to actually siege was bad.  New system where you need close to 24/7 babysitting from ninja sappers....its worse.

I want a system where its public, its a big deal, its an event, to try to take a station.  One where people bring out their best for a battle.

The current sap system is super lame.  It doesn't tap into the sandbox politics potentials a game like this has.  You get allies who will show up then let the other guys take the station because they will just hit it again in 8 hrs when everyones sleeping.

I like the added tactics involved with placing a siege stone or whatever, then having to defend it for an hour or so before the station can be attacked.

Keep the sap loot for those mini/ninja fights.

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Re: "Seige Stones"

Back when we had Intrusion 1.0. Many argued & requested the DEVs make the system more Dynamic due to reasons some above poster have stated. Instead we got what we have now. both Intrusion 1.0 & 2.0 have their Pro's & Con's.
Sadly neither system has accomplished the right balance

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Re: "Seige Stones"

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Back when we had Intrusion 1.0. Many argued & requested the DEVs make the system more Dynamic due to reasons some above poster have stated. Instead we got what we have now. both Intrusion 1.0 & 2.0 have their Pro's & Con's.
Sadly neither system has accomplished the right balance

Totally agree.

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Re: "Seige Stones"

Obi Wan Kenobi wrote:

Back when we had Intrusion 1.0. Many argued & requested the DEVs make the system more Dynamic due to reasons some above poster have stated. Instead we got what we have now. both Intrusion 1.0 & 2.0 have their Pro's & Con's.
Sadly neither system has accomplished the right balance

Sadly they replaced the one system with the other, instead of adding an alternative.

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Re: "Seige Stones"

Yeah balance is nice, however, the current system relies on chance meetings, ninja hitting, and constant babysitting.

Would be a hell of a lot more fun if taking a station would be something to get excited about and a big event, rather than many tiny no-fight or mini fight events where the chances of a big fight become rare...and if there is a big fight its usually spur of the moment.

We can get these kinds of encounters from sap looting.

Also the current sap system ignores massive politics and diplomacy potential.  Its just a constant babysitting system where 99% of the time nothing will happen.  That's boring.

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Re: "Seige Stones"

i just sieged my stones

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