Re: Detectors and detection

Do you guys really want to kill PVP?

your suggestions make it easier for indy's to hide (so there is no risk in mining beta), and for roaming groups to easily scatter if they dont want a fight (which takes the risk out of roaming).

If you don't want the risk of losing your stuff, go play with the kids in WOW.

Re: Detectors and detection

Ofcourse they don't want the risk of losing stuff, that's the whole selling point of PVP for them. lol

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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Re: Detectors and detection

I'm not trying to trash talk anyone on the forums, we prefer to talk in game with 10 - 20 assaults. All I was saying is taking away detection in game will destroy PVP (making it harder to find fights) and thus eventually destroying the game.

Re: Detectors and detection

F1R3F1GHT3R wrote:

I'm not trying to trash talk anyone on the forums, we prefer to talk in game with 10 - 20 assaults. All I was saying is taking away detection in game will destroy PVP (making it harder to find fights) and thus eventually destroying the game.

because there was no pvp ingame before introduction of those mechanics.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Detectors and detection

I only remember PVP without this mechanic, when we had people on stationary EPI spots, mining all the time and light e-war coming for them in those (STATIC) spots.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Detectors and detection

Norrdec wrote:

I only remember PVP without this mechanic, when we had people on stationary EPI spots, mining all the time and light e-war coming for them in those (STATIC) spots.

I'm going off the current way things work. Didn't know there use to be static mining spots. Of course you wouldn't need detectors if you knew exactly where the miners would be.

32 (edited by Norrdec 2014-05-23 09:26:23)

Re: Detectors and detection

Exactly, Anni either doesnt remember those times or couldnt remember those times. There were also LESS islands. Beta 2? Nope. There were about the same number of people we have now I think.
Want epi? Sit on that pool and eat it and wait for that roam to kill you.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Detectors and detection

Norrdec wrote:

Exactly, Anni either doesnt remember those times or couldnt remember those times. There were also LESS islands. Beta 2? Nope. There were about the same number of people we have now I think.
Want epi? Sit on that pool and eat it and wait for that roam to kill you.

Well, i remember the time before DEVs gave player access to endless alts sitting on every teleport, then implementing a system that allows to pay the subscription time of alts by other player with the vast ingame currency they could exploit from broken ingame mechanics.

and well, a time before spark teleporting and relatively cheap mobile teleport beacons. (Talk about NIC sinks that never work)

and what do you need a detector to find random epri spots... you just need a geoscanner and directional charges to get an arrow pointing to the next mining ground. you still cover 2km diameter detection circle of a max 18x18 km island.

telling that PvP only happens because you can see a mining robot with your detector from 2.7km range sounds like a little bit of hyperbole to me.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Detectors and detection

Anni why don't you start PVPing and teach all of us how it should be done and how wrong we are. big_smile

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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35 (edited by Norrdec 2014-05-23 12:41:43)

Re: Detectors and detection

Anni is like the victim of real life communism. It was easy for him back then because he didnt have to work and still got the nom and the booze, but those pesky capitalists made him work for it!
What I have an open market now and I can actually find things on the shop's shelfs (detect)? BAD PEOPLE, BAD, GIMME BACK MY LACK OF ITEMS TO BUY AND EAT.

It wuz better, you see?

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Detectors and detection

F1R3F1GHT3R wrote:

I'm not trying to trash talk anyone on the forums, we prefer to talk in game with 10 - 20 assaults. All I was saying is taking away detection in game will destroy PVP (making it harder to find fights) and thus eventually destroying the game.

This is rubbish. The illusion of safety will actually generate PvP. There was plenty of fights before detectors and maskers - some of my best Pvp was the nightly harvest of the sheep on Dom. Detectors don't create fights they kill them.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Detectors and detection

+100 Jita more safety = more targets = more pvp. The rest just want easy mode kills, with OP detector Castels.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Detectors and detection

Syndic wrote:

Anni why don't you start PVPing and teach all of us how it should be done and how wrong we are. big_smile

why do i need to?
there are enough active PvP player saying the same, just that none of them is showing off their epeen with a gifted black robot on alpha islands, everytime there is a bigger alpha event.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Detectors and detection

Celebro wrote:

+100 Jita more safety = more targets = more pvp. The rest just want easy mode kills, with OP detector Castels.


Is that why you guys haven't been on your island for two days?

40 (edited by Ozy 2014-05-23 17:51:52)

Re: Detectors and detection

F1R3F1GHT3R wrote:

Do you guys really want to kill PVP?

your suggestions make it easier for indy's to hide (so there is no risk in mining beta), and for roaming groups to easily scatter if they dont want a fight (which takes the risk out of roaming).

If you don't want the risk of losing your stuff, go play with the kids in WOW.

There's more to this than that.

Detectors and maskers are a two way street. They help you acquire targets, but they also help avoid fights in which you don't like the composition.

For you guys, things are a bit more difficult, assuming that you don't have access to maxed detectors yet--whenever you roam and want to PVP, you can pretty much assume that your entire fleet gets spotted without you knowing about it. Your enemy will know your numbers, location and composition and you can't really do anything about it because you can neither see the detector nor catch it. So, when your enemy engages, it's quite possible that he does so with a perfect counter to your fleet.

On the flipside, maxed detectors also allow you to see what's coming for your roaming group from 2 to 2.5k out. If you don't like what you see, you can simply bail. In this case, it's a massive decrease of risk due to detectors.

(I.e., get a guy with very high skills in detection asap)

Re: Detectors and detection

Ozy wrote:
F1R3F1GHT3R wrote:

Do you guys really want to kill PVP?

your suggestions make it easier for indy's to hide (so there is no risk in mining beta), and for roaming groups to easily scatter if they dont want a fight (which takes the risk out of roaming).

If you don't want the risk of losing your stuff, go play with the kids in WOW.

There's more to this than that.

Detectors and maskers are a two way street. They help you acquire targets, but they also help avoid fights in which you don't like the composition.

For you guys, things are a bit more difficult, assuming that you don't have access to maxed detectors yet--whenever you roam and want to PVP, you can pretty much assume that your entire fleet gets spotted without you knowing about it. Your enemy will know your numbers, location and composition and you can't really do anything about it because you can neither see the detector nor catch it. So, when your enemy engages, it's quite possible that he does so with a perfect counter to your fleet.

On the flipside, maxed detectors also allow you to see what's coming for your roaming group from 2 to 2.5k out. If you don't like what you see, you can simply bail. In this case, it's a massive decrease of risk due to detectors.

(I.e., get a guy with very high skills in detection asap)


Thanks for the well formed advice. I will make sure we do this asap.

Re: Detectors and detection

Annihilator wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Anni why don't you start PVPing and teach all of us how it should be done and how wrong we are. big_smile

why do i need to?
there are enough active PvP player saying the same, just that none of them is showing off their epeen with a gifted black robot on alpha islands, everytime there is a bigger alpha event.

Will you sound more bitter if I let you rub my epeen and gargle the mayonnaise? big_smile

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
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Re: Detectors and detection

Syndic wrote:

Oh BTW

This suggestion makes masked light ewars uncatchable, detectors unusable, and masking modules a mandatory module.

In short, it's a self-serving selfish agenda promoted by the same little clique of ladies that want to PVP without risking pixels.

The red herring is that maskers are required on every robot but detectors only on one.

Re: Detectors and detection

Burial wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Oh BTW

This suggestion makes masked light ewars uncatchable, detectors unusable, and masking modules a mandatory module.

In short, it's a self-serving selfish agenda promoted by the same little clique of ladies that want to PVP without risking pixels.

The red herring is that maskers are required on every robot but detectors only on one.

depends really.  Sometimes you want the detector to the sequer, but not the masked robots around him.  wink

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Re: Detectors and detection

Burial wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Oh BTW

This suggestion makes masked light ewars uncatchable, detectors unusable, and masking modules a mandatory module.

In short, it's a self-serving selfish agenda promoted by the same little clique of ladies that want to PVP without risking pixels.

The red herring is that maskers are required on every robot but detectors only on one.

The masker is required on every robot that wants to avoid a detector, yeah.

Just like a lightweight frame is required on every robot that wants to use speed to its advantage.

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Re: Detectors and detection

Jita wrote:
F1R3F1GHT3R wrote:

I'm not trying to trash talk anyone on the forums, we prefer to talk in game with 10 - 20 assaults. All I was saying is taking away detection in game will destroy PVP (making it harder to find fights) and thus eventually destroying the game.

This is rubbish. The illusion of safety will actually generate PvP. There was plenty of fights before detectors and maskers - some of my best Pvp was the nightly harvest of the sheep on Dom. Detectors don't create fights they kill them.


Basically This.

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13

47 (edited by Burial 2014-05-24 12:59:19)

Re: Detectors and detection

F1R3F1GHT3R wrote:

I'm not trying to trash talk anyone on the forums, we prefer to talk in game with 10 - 20 assaults. All I was saying is taking away detection in game will destroy PVP (making it harder to find fights) and thus eventually destroying the game.

Draw a 6km diameter circle on a map and you can see how big the area is just one detector can see unmasked industrials, mechs and heavies. Detectors cancel out maskers cancel out detectors is a fine notion on paper but inadvertently forces everyone to use them.

I've talked with few people that used to do a lot of solo PVP and one of the reasons they have gradually stopped is because they can't dual box detectors.

I don't think removing these modules from the game is needed. Just reduce the effectiveness by 50%, make detectors heavier and little bit harder to fit.

Re: Detectors and detection

Burial wrote:

I don't think removing these modules from the game is needed. Just reduce the effectiveness by 50%, make detectors heavier and little bit harder to fit.

ähm, NO. just playing the the numbers won't make it better.

just bring back uniform DEFAULT viewing range on all bots, and make MASKING hiding yourself, unless someone uses a detector to find youre maksed robot.

or

change something about how informations are sent to the client. A kind of radar falloff, where you get the information that there is "something", and only if it gets within your max identification range, you will get informations what that dot on the radar is.

and really, if someone is within the detectors range, he should get a notification that a detector is there, eventually seeing him. Just like in mechwarrior there is active and passive radar, or in real life military vehicles can see that the enemey has a radar, or a sonar, or whatever.

there are several possibilites to make this an entertaining and balanced feature of the game, that everyone benefits from.

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Detectors and detection

Detectors would be fine if you needed either a gimped mech or heavy to run them. That way your risking something for that level of sight. Adding a pvp flag when its used would stop people from scanning from the alpha exits and reduce alpha scouting significantly. maskers in general need to be removed imo.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Detectors and detection

Jita wrote:

Detectors would be fine if you needed either a gimped mech or heavy to run them. That way your risking something for that level of sight. Adding a pvp flag when its used would stop people from scanning from the alpha exits and reduce alpha scouting significantly. maskers in general need to be removed imo.


+1 Not so sure about removing maskers, just rebalance them a bit, (bring down there masking value).

The Gifter
Top  Killer 2013  - 01: 334 -- 17 -- 317  : Merkle
Top  Killer 2012  - 01: 027 -- 472 -- 445 : Merkle

Scarab Kill Count - 13