Re: Mining balancing

Here's how it looks from my perspective when deciding how to structure corp-mining;

Alpha
- Fields are instantly respawning
- No red NPCs
- AFKable
- Smaller density then Beta but 25-30M is good enough

Beta 1
- Fields are instantly respawning
- Caravans and observers need to be taken care of
- Can't AFK
- Same density as Alpha 2, 25-30M per field
- Must be probed/scouted

Beta 2
- Fields are instantly respawning
- Caravans and observers need to be taken care of
- Can't AFK
- Marginally better density, 30-40M
- Must be probed/scouted

+ Logistical considerations;
+ 30-40 scarab/scarab mk2 accounts at disposal for hauling, averaging between 25-30ku per trip

+ Monetary considerations
+ Price of T4/T4+ Riveler Mk2 = ? x 30-40

The most sensible thing from my perspective is to pursue two variants;
- Refine at bad efficiency and haul commodities once a week
- Haul Alpha resources once a week

In both cases there is no reason whatsoever to mine anything but Epriton on Beta.

It takes 30-40 Riv Mk2's approximately 4-5 hours to clear ~10 Beta fields, which translates to ~250M Epriton. After weekly production takes it's cut, I still have ~50-100M Epriton to stash away for whatever per week.

End result;
On average with Alpha ores being mined on Alpha by US/EU in shifts, I have ~200-300M various ore income per 12 hours. Mining that on Beta is impossible without burning people out with gatewatching/scouting/probing/reprobing/spying/etc.

TL;DR
I will continue mining on Alpha as long as its this good. And I'm in a position to say its borderline-exploiting level of good.

[18:20:30] <GLiMPSE> Chairman Of My Heart o/
CIR Complaint Form

The Imperial Grand Wizard of Justice

Re: Mining balancing

Celebro wrote:

I did post something similar on post #54. Essentially making it inconvenient for afk miners and large groups to mine on alpha. Smaller but more abundant fields on alpha may be all that is needed.

Actually that's what the OP was advocating and you disagreed but so long as were on the same page now :-)

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Mining balancing

well they could take out those rare drop PL and quest variant ores from alpha, then make them used in production (not refined) and think of some other way to do mining missions other than farming up some of those mission based ores that can be refined.

I like the concept of rare ores being found in ore fields, however perhaps putting those only in beta, and in much higher frequency on gamma, would give good cause to have noobies farming the safe alpha for build ore, and then do structured mining ops on beta and gamma to farm up required rare ores.

That's the problem with basic ores being on all islands, having two safe islands, having infinite ores on all island...

Theres no point not to farm on alpha...even if you brought back roaming mobs...red ones...and figured out how to make them non exploitable...alpha is the best spot for basic ores because theres only one tier of ores...

Something small like creating various tiers of ore of each type would be cause to want to go mine titan on beta or gamma if it meant slightly better preforming results from producing with them.

Perhaps its time for MK3 bots and T5 mods....make the high tier require collixium, and rare ores.  Keep them all out of alpha.

Added benefit if people...the big miners...stayed in gamma and beta for epi/collixium/rare ores....there would be good market buy orders for noobs trying to get into the game via farming basic ores on alpha.

Stranger Danger / Capital Punishment / Cyberdown
Pillar of the Community
Ruler of Recruit Chat
CIR Ministry of Truth

Re: Mining balancing

Jita wrote:
Celebro wrote:

I did post something similar on post #54. Essentially making it inconvenient for afk miners and large groups to mine on alpha. Smaller but more abundant fields on alpha may be all that is needed.

Actually that's what the OP was advocating and you disagreed but so long as were on the same page now :-)

I must have focused on the station nerf which I still disagree, though the alpha now being completely red spawn free I feel now this is needed.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Mining balancing

Can I give this a bump. Its so important this is fixed and p much everyone agrees.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Mining balancing

Jita wrote:

Can I give this a bump. Its so important this is fixed and p much everyone agrees.

I agree with you that a change is needed, but I am concerned this will worsen the impact the player gap between new and old already has. I remember the time when mining was nerfed and people started leaving en mass because of that change. Now I agree the infinite availability of ores on each island is still broken.

RIP PERPETUUM

Re: Mining balancing

Celebro wrote:
Jita wrote:

Can I give this a bump. Its so important this is fixed and p much everyone agrees.

I agree with you that a change is needed, but I am concerned this will worsen the impact the player gap between new and old already has. I remember the time when mining was nerfed and people started leaving en mass because of that change. Now I agree the infinite availability of ores on each island is still broken.

i dont doubt it will piss people off but were on a good place right now where there is an open beta option and we are at the beginning of a journey. If they do it later down the line the impact will be worse and it has to happen sooner or later.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

Re: Mining balancing

the threshold for generating a new deposit was not changed since its implementation, even though its so high that it will create a new one everytime a single one was mined out (according whats been said on forums, even though i believe thats exaggeration)

plants have a regrow cycle of 4 or 8 hours, but minerals not?

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Mining balancing

Well you can plant the plants and have them always in the same spot.

<GargajCNS> we maim to please

Re: Mining balancing

I play while I work my real job, since I have to await people's leisure most of the time. I really am not that into PVP nor do I want to join a corporation, I just want to play the game. I do not like the idea of bring pushed into PVP. I know with games like this for some reason am lot of the more vocal players think PVP is the only way to go, but I personally disagree. I wouldn't mind making alpha a little more challenging, but this would make it basically unplayable for me if I get interrupted by real life.

Re: Mining balancing

Mister B wrote:

I play while I work my real job, since I have to await people's leisure most of the time. I really am not that into PVP nor do I want to join a corporation, I just want to play the game. I do not like the idea of bring pushed into PVP. I know with games like this for some reason am lot of the more vocal players think PVP is the only way to go, but I personally disagree. I wouldn't mind making alpha a little more challenging, but this would make it basically unplayable for me if I get interrupted by real life.

Actual this will benefit you. It enables you to keep the same efficiency mining while hurting big corps. This drives prices up for you.

Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags."

87

Re: Mining balancing

I really get tired of the DEVS messing around with the resources in the game ... I think the only problem right now is the afk scarab liquid miners. other than that If you want to spend the time to strip mine field after field with however many RIV MK2's i really dont care you paid the price for the game and skilled the characters so you should have the benefits ...

If any change needs to be made to effect this NPC's should go back to being red on alpha2' and no liquids on alpha 1 islands. this will stop afk liquid mining. all of the other ores are mined tile by tile so their is a lot more work to be done.

This is not an issue on beta because there is pvp which = risk

Alpha 2 should have some risk = RED roaming (no static spawns please) NPC's

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Mining balancing

Tux wrote:

I really get tired of the DEVS messing around with the resources in the game ... I think the only problem right now is the afk scarab liquid miners. other than that If you want to spend the time to strip mine field after field with however many RIV MK2's i really dont care you paid the price for the game and skilled the characters so you should have the benefits ...

If any change needs to be made to effect this NPC's should go back to being red on alpha2' and no liquids on alpha 1 islands. this will stop afk liquid mining. all of the other ores are mined tile by tile so their is a lot more work to be done.

This is not an issue on beta because there is pvp which = risk

Alpha 2 should have some risk = RED roaming (no static spawns please) NPC's

As a newbie, I support this opinion with a little clarification.

Beta is not risk, it's a certain death, thus no risk is involved. Anything but a megacorp grunt can't possibly mine there, while megacorp grunts have no risk doing it. Better address this.
Why introduce reds to alpha 2, when you can fix afk liquid mining in the same way as ore mining - making it tile-based, at least on alpha. Because imagine newbie assault doing tier 3 mission, then red appears = newbie got screwed for AFK miner sins. Pretty bad.

Re: Mining balancing

Mr Swine wrote:

Because imagine newbie assault doing tier 3 mission, then red appears = newbie got screwed for AFK miner sins. Pretty bad.

Roaming spawns are slow and need to be pretty close to detect a player and aggress them, once red Npc's appear on Radar/Landmarks, that player has a choice, either pull back to allow the Reds to pass or to engage them, rewards are better than static orange spawns and at the moment there is absolutely no risk to players on either Alpha 1 or 2, I agree with most suggestions otherwise.

Re: Mining balancing

Duane Dibbley wrote:
Mr Swine wrote:

Because imagine newbie assault doing tier 3 mission, then red appears = newbie got screwed for AFK miner sins. Pretty bad.

Roaming spawns are slow and need to be pretty close to detect a player and aggress them, once red Npc's appear on Radar/Landmarks, that player has a choice, either pull back to allow the Reds to pass or to engage them, rewards are better than static orange spawns and at the moment there is absolutely no risk to players on either Alpha 1 or 2, I agree with most suggestions otherwise.

1) Newbie detection radius sucks.
2) Missions have demobilizing mobs.
3) Why is risk needed again? Anyone who wants the risk can go beta, there is as much of it as alpha atm.

Re: Mining balancing

Mr Swine wrote:
Duane Dibbley wrote:
Mr Swine wrote:

Because imagine newbie assault doing tier 3 mission, then red appears = newbie got screwed for AFK miner sins. Pretty bad.

Roaming spawns are slow and need to be pretty close to detect a player and aggress them, once red Npc's appear on Radar/Landmarks, that player has a choice, either pull back to allow the Reds to pass or to engage them, rewards are better than static orange spawns and at the moment there is absolutely no risk to players on either Alpha 1 or 2, I agree with most suggestions otherwise.

1) Newbie detection radius sucks.
2) Missions have demobilizing mobs.
3) Why is risk needed again? Anyone who wants the risk can go beta, there is as much of it as alpha atm.

where does the new players detection radius differ from the vet's one?
did i miss the implementation of an extension that increases my heavy mechs detection radius?

detection of bot classes:
light : 120
assault : 100
mech 120
heavy mech: 80
industrial robot: 80

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Mining balancing

Annihilator wrote:

where does the new players detection radius differ from the vet's one?
did i miss the implementation of an extension that increases my heavy mechs detection radius?

detection of bot classes:
light : 120
assault : 100
mech 120
heavy mech: 80
industrial robot: 80

Anything on the other points or you just came to pick on one?

Anyway, I know for a fact there is a difference - moved my Termis and Artemis yesterday and noticed they detect NPCs on a pretty highly different range, while both being mechs.

Re: Mining balancing

Mr Swine wrote:

Anyway, I know for a fact there is a difference - moved my Termis and Artemis yesterday and noticed they detect NPCs on a pretty highly different range, while both being mechs.

because one is a combat mech, and the other a mining mech. and the balancing dev thought, they need to be shortsighted but visible for combat mechs from far away for the sake of PvP.

but there is no difference between noob and vet when it comes to those numbers. only that a vet eventually has two accounts, getting best of both worlds wink

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear