26

Re: Sensor Strength

Jita wrote:

Your maths don't make sense. With four head slots I can shoot 50% of the time vs four head slots of ewar that can't shoot at all. Even under four ECM and four supressors I can shoot 25% of the time and your using two ewar mechs that can't shoot back.

if you are getting ECMed but 4 ecm's and suppressed by 4 suppressors that are equal to or more than your bots sensor strength you will never shoot ... get out and test it.

Tux wrote:

Yes when taking into consideration "FLEET" composition you can compensate for this with more EW vs EW. Balance is not bringing more ECM's to ECM the ECMers. Balance is employing a viable counter (Electronic counter counter measure) that is as effective as its pair.

Syndic, Lobo and others: there are viable counters when taking into account fleets this is already understood by many. This is not a nerf Ewar thread as i have already stated ... it about bringing more balance and options to players that choose not to put a suppressor and ECM on every bot they want to roam around with.

Their is more than one type of game play that does not revolve around group pvp. the current state or ECM and Suppression just needs to be looked at and balanced through other modules.



Syndic wrote:

EW Tunings have an obvious and very serious drawback.

yes thers a problem ... solution ??????

try being constructive for a change . ...

where was the counters for ECM tuner and suppressor tuner?

we got a counter for the ENwar tuner with the reactor sealing.

weapon stabs / evasive mods
damage tunings / resistance plates / HP plates

read and think about the future of the game and stop knee jerking your responses

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

27 (edited by Jasmoba 2014-05-18 19:19:23)

Re: Sensor Strength

Tux wrote:
Jita wrote:

Your maths don't make sense. With four head slots I can shoot 50% of the time vs four head slots of ewar that can't shoot at all. Even under four ECM and four supressors I can shoot 25% of the time and your using two ewar mechs that can't shoot back.

if you are getting ECMed but 4 ecm's and suppressed by 4 suppressors that are equal to or more than your bots sensor strength you will never shoot ... get out and test it.

Tux wrote:

Yes when taking into consideration "FLEET" composition you can compensate for this with more EW vs EW. Balance is not bringing more ECM's to ECM the ECMers. Balance is employing a viable counter (Electronic counter counter measure) that is as effective as its pair.

Syndic, Lobo and others: there are viable counters when taking into account fleets this is already understood by many. This is not a nerf Ewar thread as i have already stated ... it about bringing more balance and options to players that choose not to put a suppressor and ECM on every bot they want to roam around with.

Their is more than one type of game play that does not revolve around group pvp. the current state or ECM and Suppression just needs to be looked at and balanced through other modules.



Syndic wrote:

EW Tunings have an obvious and very serious drawback.

yes thers a problem ... solution ??????

try being constructive for a change . ...

where was the counters for ECM tuner and suppressor tuner?

we got a counter for the ENwar tuner with the reactor sealing.

weapon stabs / evasive mods
damage tunings / resistance plates / HP plates

read and think about the future of the game and stop knee jerking your responses

And so the crusade to nerf ewar continues ...

http://www.perp-kill.net/kill/257283

I cant even take this seriously when i see an E war light charging against a baph... How else we explain a slow baph got a hold of one of the fastest bots in the game.

Ask for nerfs all u want, if the DEVS actually do it we will just adapt and we see what's gonna be the next crusade.

The hypocrisy in all these pots if just laughable.  I don't see any post about nefing like the tyr mk2 shield tank ?  or the castel mk2.   What about the mesmer with all dmg tunnings ?   It's all about what you can't fight against. 

Look when STC lost Kara,  they were running ewar mechs as a 2nd box, the only thing we had to do was suppress them once and let them be.

It is not about any of these things you try to get change.  It's about you can't use your bots like you should and you want it nerf/change.

28 (edited by Syndic 2014-05-18 22:05:46)

Re: Sensor Strength

Tux wrote:
Jita wrote:

Your maths don't make sense. With four head slots I can shoot 50% of the time vs four head slots of ewar that can't shoot at all. Even under four ECM and four supressors I can shoot 25% of the time and your using two ewar mechs that can't shoot back.

if you are getting ECMed but 4 ecm's and suppressed by 4 suppressors that are equal to or more than your bots sensor strength you will never shoot ... get out and test it.

Tux wrote:

Yes when taking into consideration "FLEET" composition you can compensate for this with more EW vs EW. Balance is not bringing more ECM's to ECM the ECMers. Balance is employing a viable counter (Electronic counter counter measure) that is as effective as its pair.

Syndic, Lobo and others: there are viable counters when taking into account fleets this is already understood by many. This is not a nerf Ewar thread as i have already stated ... it about bringing more balance and options to players that choose not to put a suppressor and ECM on every bot they want to roam around with.

Their is more than one type of game play that does not revolve around group pvp. the current state or ECM and Suppression just needs to be looked at and balanced through other modules.



Syndic wrote:

EW Tunings have an obvious and very serious drawback.

yes thers a problem ... solution ??????

try being constructive for a change . ...

where was the counters for ECM tuner and suppressor tuner?

we got a counter for the ENwar tuner with the reactor sealing.

weapon stabs / evasive mods
damage tunings / resistance plates / HP plates

read and think about the future of the game and stop knee jerking your responses

By your logic, 1 rep-tanked Mesmer Mk2 beats 1 dps-fit Mesmer mk2 therefore rep-tank is overpowered therefore NERF ERP/repair modules/repair tunings.

It's flawed logic clear and simple. You cannot balance or analyze the game based on a theoretical line-up of 1X vs 1Y (especially when you tailor the match-up from the get-go to suit your argument), then turn around and try to apply the results of that 1v1 scenario to an open-ended dynamic group setting with uncapped teams and uncapped fits.

There is no reason whatsoever to put EW on bots that aren't designed for it. Sure, it can work situationally as a "suprise!" factor but properly fit bots will beat lol-fits 9/10 times.

And while I'm happy be constructive by sitting down with Devs and explain how things work and demonstrate the hows and whys, I certainly won't be teaching you how to play. You had years, if you haven't learnt by now you never will.

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29 (edited by Tux 2014-05-19 08:53:09)

Re: Sensor Strength

Flawed Logic and tailored match ups are why we got the tunings we currently have in game.

If you think its as simple as  Mesmer rep vs dps build I am thankful you are NOT advising the DEVS on anything.

Its not simple tick for tack ... Im  not going to go over what others have already explained in great detail in many other threads. If Ewar was balanced you would not see players  for all different corps calling for something to be done about it.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

30

Re: Sensor Strength

The simplest possible change we could apply to ecms would be to limit them like suppressors and amps--only 2 can affect a bot at the same time. I'm pretty sure this would appease most of those asking for nerfs at the moment because it'd mitigate the ecm vs eccm issue.

Would any cam/vaga pilots like to chime on in this with something constructive?

Re: Sensor Strength

Why is it even needed?  Your going against a bot that is sololy designed to ECM.  It even has a random chance to fail with L10 skills in jamming and complex jamming.  If they fail, your team mates die.  You have three counters to ecm, 2sensor amps, add another eccm, or get RSAs!

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Re: Sensor Strength

Tux wrote:

Flawed Logic and tailored match ups are why we got the tunings we currently have in game.

If you think its as simple as  Mesmer rep vs dps build I am thankful you are NOT advising the DEVS on anything.

Its not simple tick for tack ... Im  not going to go over what others have already explained in great detail in many other threads. If Ewar was balanced you would not see players  for all different corps calling for something to be done about it.

Here's a curve-ball.

- None of our fleet-fits incorporate EW tunings. We tested the module and discarded it as pointless.
- Your fleet-fits are heavily reliant on EW tunings to achieve the magical "100%".

Why aren't - by your logic - your "superior fleet-fits" winning the fights for you?

Here's another curve-ball.

- None of our Zeniths use ECM's. We tested the fit and discarded it as pointless.
- Your Zeniths are running ECM's and Supression to achieve "something mathematical".

Why arent - by your logic again - your mathematically "superior fleet-fits" winning the fights for you?

Here's another curve ball.

- Your ECM chameleon mk2's are the last targets we call because we decided they're irrelevant against our composition.
- Your ECM chameleon mk2's have the magical "100%"

Why aren't - by your logic again - the overpowered ewars winning the fights for you?

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Re: Sensor Strength

Tux wrote:

Flawed Logic and tailored match ups are why we got the tunings we currently have in game.

If you think its as simple as  Mesmer rep vs dps build I am thankful you are NOT advising the DEVS on anything.

Im  not going to go over what others have already explained in great detail in many other threads.

The ONLY nerf-ewar arguments used in other threads are those based on theory craft spreadsheet 1v1 scenarios. So thank you for not reiterating what you describe as flawed logic.

Re: Sensor Strength

ECM/Suppressor should need LOS.
Active ECCM should be added.
EW Nexus needs to go from 29% to 15%.

35 (edited by Tux 2014-05-19 22:32:21)

Re: Sensor Strength

Syndic wrote:

Why aren't - by your logic again - the overpowered ewars winning the fights for you?

http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=kill-rela … l_id=43287

You can keep saying "nothings wrong with ECM/Supperssion" "Nothing to see here" but the fact is that its not balanced.. I needs to be fixed. but by all means keep posting about how well you abuse it.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Sensor Strength

Tux wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Why aren't - by your logic again - the overpowered ewars winning the fights for you?

http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=kill-rela … l_id=43287

You can keep saying "nothings wrong with ECM/Supperssion" "Nothing to see here" but the fact is that its not balanced.. I needs to be fixed. but by all means keep posting about how well you abuse it.

So you post a kill that was won by stringing people out and isolating them, your being one sided Tux and biasedly posting a kill mail that doesn't show what really happened.

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Re: Sensor Strength

http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=kill-rela … l_id=43292

Seems pretty balanced, or was overpowered ECM/supression suddenly not overpowered enough?

How about in this instance http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=kill-rela … l_id=43070

Can we identify which cameleon mk2s had the faulty ECM Tuning installed?

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38 (edited by Tux 2014-05-19 23:25:17)

Re: Sensor Strength

Syndic wrote:

http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=kill-rela … l_id=43292

Seems pretty balanced, or was overpowered ECM/supression suddenly not overpowered enough?

How about in this instance http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=kill-rela … l_id=43070

Can we identify which cameleon mk2s had the faulty ECM Tuning installed?

You have just proven my point you brought more EW and won by being able to  lock down the opposing fleet. Look at the kills and look how much ECM is on the field. roll

#2 You have 8 Light EW robots on the field to our 6 ... but even though we were out numbered we still engaged and got kills before all of your EW bots were able to engage. This is no shocker to anyone who pvp's

@ Ville should I post statements to support your point of view or mine?

I use Ewar knowing its overpowered and something needs to be done about it. Other use ewar blindly and think its perfectly balanced that's the difference. In the case i posted we were able to put more EW on the field at the time of the engagement so we got kills ... later we were able to kill 2 mechs 1 with a pretty good rep build(Jones) because we had enough jams to not allow him a kill http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=kill&kill_id=43289 .

If you guys were not so dependent on EW we might be able to have a constructive conversation on how it should be balanced... But obviously this is a waste of time.

Tux ~ Kill the messenger, he was part of it all along.
Euripides ~ Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head.
Bertrand Russell ~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Re: Sensor Strength

Tux wrote:

But obviously this is a waste of time.

congratulations...
you finally realised it.

hope dies last...

*Disclaimer: This post can contain strong sarcasm or cynical remarks. keep that in mind!
Whining - It's amazing how fast your trivial concerns will disappear

Re: Sensor Strength

Tux wrote:
Syndic wrote:

http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=kill-rela … l_id=43292

Seems pretty balanced, or was overpowered ECM/supression suddenly not overpowered enough?

How about in this instance http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=kill-rela … l_id=43070

Can we identify which cameleon mk2s had the faulty ECM Tuning installed?

You have just proven my point you brought more EW and won by being able to  lock down the opposing fleet. Look at the kills and look how much ECM is on the field. roll

#2 You have 8 Light EW robots on the field to our 6 ... but even though we were out numbered we still engaged and got kills before all of your EW bots were able to engage. This is no shocker to anyone who pvp's

@ Ville should I post statements to support your point of view or mine?

I use Ewar knowing its overpowered and something needs to be done about it. Other use ewar blindly and think its perfectly balanced that's the difference. In the case i posted we were able to put more EW on the field at the time of the engagement so we got kills ... later we were able to kill 2 mechs 1 with a pretty good rep build(Jones) because we had enough jams to not allow him a kill http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=kill&kill_id=43289 .

If you guys were not so dependent on EW we might be able to have a constructive conversation on how it should be balanced... But obviously this is a waste of time.

Tux even at L10 skills I still miss jams.  It's a pure numbers game whoever brings the most typically wins unless they are ***.

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Re: Sensor Strength

Burial wrote:

ECM/Suppressor should need LOS.
Active ECCM should be added.
EW Nexus needs to go from 29% to 15%.

Is that you Burial. You're even uglier than before.

-1

42 (edited by Rage Rex 2014-05-20 04:08:55)

Re: Sensor Strength

Tux wrote:
Syndic wrote:

Why aren't - by your logic again - the overpowered ewars winning the fights for you?

http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=kill-rela … l_id=43287

You can keep saying "nothings wrong with ECM/Supperssion" "Nothing to see here" but the fact is that its not balanced.. I needs to be fixed. but by all means keep posting about how well you abuse it.

And you keep saying "somethings wrong with ECM/Supperssion" "Something to see here" but the fact is that you have not made your case.

Burden is on you. And that you lose heavy fleets is not proof.

Re: Sensor Strength

I'm starting to think we should be buffing ECM and Suppression Tuners.

Make it so Zoom.

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Re: Sensor Strength

Tux wrote:

You have just proven my point you brought more EW and won by being able to  lock down the opposing fleet. Look at the kills and look how much ECM is on the field. roll

#2 You have 8 Light EW robots on the field to our 6 ... but even though we were out numbered we still engaged and got kills before all of your EW bots were able to engage. This is no shocker to anyone who pvp's

@ Ville should I post statements to support your point of view or mine?

I use Ewar knowing its overpowered and something needs to be done about it. Other use ewar blindly and think its perfectly balanced that's the difference. In the case i posted we were able to put more EW on the field at the time of the engagement so we got kills ... later we were able to kill 2 mechs 1 with a pretty good rep build(Jones) because we had enough jams to not allow him a kill http://killboard.sequer.nl/?a=kill&kill_id=43289 .

If you guys were not so dependent on EW we might be able to have a constructive conversation on how it should be balanced... But obviously this is a waste of time.

Yes, look at the kills. Then look at what's not killed. Then look at in which order stuff is being killed.

If EWar is overpowered and something needs to be done about it, why do we literally ignore your EWar in every fight and leave it for last?

***DRUMROLL***

We have built a composition ECM is meaningless against. The more ECM you bring, the more gimped your fleets are.

***BADUMTISH***

lol

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45 (edited by Burial 2014-05-20 09:56:18)

Re: Sensor Strength

How about suppressors? wink

Re: Sensor Strength

Swap to a supressor spamming composition and find out. wink

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Re: Sensor Strength

I already know.

Re: Sensor Strength

If you knew, you wouldn't be collectively bleating to nerf ewar and completely destroy the game balance. Or maybe thats in your interest, who knows.

Prove me wrong if you can. lol

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